You are listening to Relationships Shouldn't Hurt, a podcast brought to you by Central Bedfordshire Council. During this series, you'll be able to hear us talk all things domestic abuse and raise awareness of the support available to those affected.
Hello everybody, welcome to our next edition of Relationships Shouldn't Hurt podcast. Today we'll be talking about Protection Orders, and also Clare's Law, going into what those protection orders are, how they can help people and really giving you some information that could be useful to yourself a friend, a family member or a colleague. And if you're a professional working with someone that you have concerns over hopefully this information will be really useful to you too. So my name is Joy from Central Bedfordshire Council and today I'm joined by Sue from Victim Support. Good morning, Sue.
Sue
Good morning, Joy.
Joy
Can you tell us a little bit about yourself, and your role please Sue?
Sue
I'm a senior IDVA and I work across Bedfordshire managing the teams with another senior. We manage the senior IDVA team who support victims who are at high risk of further harm from domestic abuse.
Joy
That's great thank you Sue, and you’re really welcome as a specialist in this particular podcast. So just for those of our listeners who don't know what an IDVA is, so an IDVA is an independent domestic violence advocate. Could you just give us a little bit of information about what the IDVA does?
Sue
Yes, we receive referrals for victims of domestic abuse from various agencies, and we put in place safety plans and support plans to enable them to become safer from further harm. For them and their children and maybe even other members of their family who might be at risk.
Joy
Brilliant, so it's a real advocacy service walking alongside somebody who might be experiencing domestic abuse, domestic violence or kind of really concerned about their relationships. So really important and central work.
Sue
Yes, and they might still be in the relationship, and we would still support them if they were still in the relationship and not wishing to leave at the moment. But we could put in some safety plans that might make them safer from further harm within the relationship. But if they were looking at planning to leave, we would also help them plan that safely. And if they're out of the relationship, we would help them remain safe from further harm.
Joy
Brilliant, thank you ever so much. And thank you on behalf of everybody who works with victims and survivors of domestic abuse for the work you and your teams do. So I suppose a big question for us to start with is, what is a protection order? What do we mean when we say that?
Sue
A protection order is an order that anybody who is at risk of harm from a family member or an intimate partner, they may be in a relationship or out of a relationship. They can apply either through the civil court to get an order themselves, or they could go with the criminal justice system and go down that route to get an order from the criminal courts. And that order, is an order that's given by a magistrate or a judge to help them protect themselves from further harm from any individual who is threatening harm or causing them harm.
Joy
So there's sort of two separate things there, so that’s civil orders and then court orders. So it doesn't necessarily mean that anyone has to go to the Police if they didn't want to, but in some circumstances, they would. Is that right?
Sue
Yes, some people choose to go to the Police and report what's happening to them, and some people feel that they don't want to go to the criminal court, go to the Police to report what's happening to them. The Police may have been called also, and the case may not have got any further in the criminal courts because there wasn't enough evidence for the CPS, the Crown Prosecution Service, to take it any further. So in those cases where somebody doesn't want to go to the Police, or the Police and the CPS have decided that there's not enough evidence, they can go down the civil court route and apply for an order. It's the same order, it gives them the same protection, but the alleged perpetrator wouldn't have a criminal conviction attached to that order. There is an arrest warrant attached to that order, the same as a criminal order, and there's a sentence if it's breached. But some victims of domestic abuse feel that this might be their first option that they look at to help protect themselves and stop the alleged perpetrator from further harming them, so they decide to go and get that civil order from the civil court.
Joy
Okay, it's really, really useful for our listeners to understand there's sort of two different ways that they could approach this if they felt they wanted to get a protection order. So I understand that there are different types of protection orders available for victims and survivors of abuse, and we've got various different protection orders at the moment that help someone who's being stalked and harassed. We have Domestic Violence Protection Orders, which are known as DVPOs. We have Domestic Violence Protection Notices, DVPNs. We have Non-Molestation orders, we have occupancy orders, and we have a range of other orders. They seem quite interesting when we say their names, but actually do we know what victims would benefit from what orders? So it would flesh out a little bit of information about the different types of orders.
Sue
Yes, certainly so if we start with a Non-Molestation order, again because there's another order that's attached to a Non-Molestation order. So if a victim of domestic abuse, domestic violence, wishes to get an order from the civil court then they can apply to the civil court for that order. They can do that themselves and there's websites that clearly explain how to do that yourself, or they can ask a solicitor to support them to get that order. On the Non-Molestation order there's also something called an Occupation order, and that order is used where clients are finding it very difficult to ask the alleged perpetrators to leave the property, so they might be living together but the client is very scared and frightened of the alleged perpetrator, and they want to ask them to leave but they won't. So, as part of the Non-Molestation order, which is put in place to protect them from further harm, they can ask the magistrate at the civil courts to also put in what's called an Occupation order. And that order is used to ask an alleged perpetrator to leave a property, so that the victim can remain safely in that property. Those two orders, you can have the Non-Molestation order on its own, you can have the Occupation order on its own or you can have them both together. So the order that is given in regard to the Non-Molestation order would protect them from further harassment, from further harm and that may be further violence, emotional harm, coercive control, financial abuse. Although it's a civil order, not a criminal order, if he breaches the order, he or she, there would be an arrest warrant attached to that order and the alleged perpetrator could be arrested for breaching that order. It also carries a sentence in the criminal courts, so if the order itself is breached, that's a criminal offence and the same with the Occupation order. So the Occupation order and the Non-Molestation order will be served on the alleged perpetrator, and if they didn't comply with the order, they could be arrested and charged with an offence of breaching either of the orders. Some of the listeners may have heard that at the moment in Parliament and in the House of Lords there's the new Domestic Violence Bill that is just being put into law at the moment, and there are going to be some changes for the better in regard to protection orders. At the moment, there's lots of different orders and lots of different ways of getting orders and especially around the DVPOs and the DVPNs, the Non-Molestation orders, the Restraining order. So what the government are hoping to do is legislate for these orders to be simplified and made so it's a lot easier for victims to go to the courts, both criminal and civil, to get an order. So if you go on to the government website, you can find the information about how they propose the new orders are going to work.
Joy
That's really, really great information Sue, and I think really clear that those two orders themselves can really help a lot of people that we know reach out to us and ask for support, especially if they're living in a home with a partner or an ex-partner or those family members who are abusing them.
Sue
There are further civil orders that you can get to help protect your family. Another order that’s often got through the civil court is what's called a Prohibited Steps Order, and that order is where an alleged perpetrator’s made maybe a threat against taking children from the victim, who may be the main carer of the children, and they may be concerned that their children are going to be taken, and that order can be applied at the civil court as well.
Joy
So does that have the same level of scrutiny in terms of arrest warrant, like you mentioned for the occupancy order?
Sue
It does, and it can
also be used if, for instance, you can go and get that order, in fact, all
orders at the civil court can be got in an emergency, so you can get them
quickly by putting in an application. The court will hear that either the same
day sometimes, but often it's the next day so that the order can be heard
what's called ex parte, so without the alleged perpetrator
being present. It's so important that that order’s given, the Magistrate or the
judge will hear it immediately. So what will happen then, if that order is
breached that they could be arrested and charged for the breach of that order,
and it's often used if somebody has already taken children, you can apply in an
emergency situation to get that Prohibited Steps Order put in place, so that
when that order is in place the victim can then ask the Police to go and
collect those children and bring them back to who is considered to be their
main carer.
Joy
Brilliant, that's a really comprehensive order. In terms of stalking and harassment then Sue, we have Stalking and Harassment Protection orders. What would they help with?
Sue
They are used in domestic violence, but they can also be used for other people who might not be and might not have been in a familiar or an intimate relationship with the perpetrator. And it's an order that the Police can apply for to help protect a victim from somebody being stalked and harassed. So that may be a victim of domestic abuse where he or she has left that relationship and the alleged perpetrator is stalking and harassing, and there may not be enough evidence for the Police to prosecute that person, so the Police can apply for that order through the civil court to get that protection from stalking and harassment order for the person to help protect them.
Joy
Great, and that's a really useful one to kind of know that difference, that it doesn't just have to be in a domestic abuse relationship. This is still very protective of someone if they feel they are being stalked and harassed, or just stalked or just harassed.
Sue
Yes, definitely yes.
Joy
So in terms of the two notices that I'm aware that Police can help support a victim or survivor with we've got a Domestic Violence Protection Order and Domestic Violence Protection Notice. Can you tell us a little bit about those two orders?
Sue
Yes, the Domestic Violence Protection Notice is often given in the first instance where the perpetrator has been identified by the Police, and the Police are quite worried about the victim. And they can use that Protection Notice to give the alleged perpetrator an order to not contact or not to go to the address of a victim. And that order is usually for around about 48 hours, which then can give them time to get another order in place, which is often the DVPO, which is the actual order. So the orders are currently being obtained by the Police, they're not for victims to apply to the court for those orders themselves. So the notice is often used to give the Police time to get an order in place to protect the victim for a longer period of time. And typically that's for four weeks.
Joy
Okay, that's great. And that's interesting in time. So in terms of the orders that we've previously talked about, the Non-Molestation, the Occupancy order and the Stalking and Harassment order, are they a similar level of timescale, or can they be shorter or longer?
Sue
They're typically longer. The civil orders typically last from six to twelve months, but they can be indefinite. It's the court's discretion, and they often ask the victim for their wishes in regard to how long an order is going to be given for. In that case they can also, if the time limit of the order is coming to an end but there's still some concerns of the victim, they can go back to the court and have that order extended as well, so that typically tends to be between six and twelve months. But it can be for longer, whereas the Domestic Violence Protection Notices and orders are for shorter periods of time. And really those orders are put in place to protect a victim in the short term. So the other orders that would be more suitable can be got from either the civil court or the criminal courts.
Joy
That makes a lot of sense. So Sue, are there any other orders that you think are really good for us to flag to our listeners at this point?
Sue
Yes. I mean, a very similar order but through the criminal courts is what's currently called a Restraining order. And that order is if the case goes to the court, so if the CPS deem that there has been a criminal offence and the perpetrator is charged and found guilty of that offence, then the criminal courts can also give what's called a Restraining order. The order is very, very similar to the civil order. It carries exactly the same penalties, which is up to five years in prison if it's breached and/or a fine. But it's actually recorded as a criminal order, so it's usually given as part of a sentence. And the criminal courts would also take the clients views into consideration, so the victim of the crime would be asked if they felt that the order was required, and if it was required, how long that they might like the order for. So they would then be given that order, and that order could be worded not to pester, harm or alarm or cause distress. It can be used to prevent a perpetrator from going to an address or a street and sometimes even a town or a county. It depends on the sentencing of the perpetrator, so that order can be used if the Crown Prosecution take the case to court and the offender is found guilty of that crime. And in some instances, we have had orders where alleged perpetrators were found not guilty of a crime but the judge or the magistrate still feels that an order should be put in place. So we also have occasionally been granted those orders for our clients. So that's another important order that is currently available. There's also a Forced Marriage order that victims who have been threatened with forced marriage can actually get through the courts as well.
Joy
And would that have a similar level of protection that supports that victim? If they didn't want to go ahead into a marriage that they didn't want to be part of.
Sue
Yes, if that order was breached and the named people or person on that order tried to force a marriage or force the marriage, then they will be subject to arrest for that offence and a breach of the order.
Joy
That's really great to know Sue, that we've got lots of protection in place for people should they want to come forward and actually seek some of that support we can offer. So in terms of who can apply for these orders, is it that anybody can apply on behalf of somebody, or does it need to be the victim themselves that applies?
Sue
In the case of the Crown Prosecution Service and criminal cases, the victim can give wishes to the Crown Prosecution Service. But it is the court that’s asked for that, the Crown Prosecution Service would ask the judge or the magistrate to give that order to protect. In relation to a Non-Molestation order through the civil court, that would be the victim themselves that applied for the order. They could do that themselves, without asking anybody else for help, but part of our role is to support our clients who may want a protection order to get as much support as they can. And they could see a solicitor, to ask a solicitor to help them with the statement that they will need to make to the court, with gathering evidence for the court, if it's required, and to actually go to court with the clients to get that order. And in regard to the court costs, the court don't charge court costs in relation to any orders, any protection orders, Prohibited Steps orders, Forced Marriage orders, none of those civil orders carries any court charges. However, if you have a solicitor, you engage a solicitor to support you with your application, then that solicitor may charge you for their services. We do help clients also try to obtain Legal Aid, and all victims of domestic abuse are eligible to make an application for Legal Aid. And the Legal Aid is means tested, so they would have to show that they couldn't afford fees that the solicitor is charging, and they would have to provide bank statements and they would have to provide evidence of what benefits they were receiving so that that application could go into the Legal Aid system. And then if they met the eligibility criteria, they could get that Legal Aid free of charge so the solicitor could support them to get that order in the civil court.
Joy
Great, thank you Sue. So just to kind of recap on where people can get help and support from, like Sue said, people can go online to various different websites and pick up those civil orders and if they feel happy and able to, to complete those themselves. They can go into any solicitor to ask for their help and support. But there are also national helplines and organisations, like Sue’s from Victim Support, who will actually be able to help walk somebody through and really give somebody that empowerment and advocacy if they feel that they would like some additional support to do that. One of those helplines is the National Domestic Abuse Helpline, and that's 08082000247. And they've also got a very comprehensive website. And if you live in Bedfordshire, we also have the Bedfordshire Domestic Abuse Partnership website, which has got a wealth of information, Get Help pages and various different support structures, and a little bit of extra information on protection orders, if you want to have a look at that. So there are people out there Sue, that basically a victim or survivor isn't on their own, and we would encourage them to seek support and to get some help from professionals who can really walk them through how they can get some additional help for those harms and risks that they're facing.
Sue
Yes, most definitely. And one thing I always like to explain to victims of domestic abuse is these orders look very daunting. You can download the application for a Non-Molestation order, Occupation order, Prohibited Steps order from the government website, and it looks very daunting. But actually it isn't, and the court require information, definitely, but they don't want pages and pages and pages of information, they want just an outline of what you've been experiencing. So that might be when the abuse started, a few lines about that, a few lines about how bad it was when it was at its worst, the latest incident, why you're concerned, why you're coming for the order now and how the abuse makes you feel, you and your family. So it's very, actually, it's quite a small piece of work that you'll be required to do to give the court information to enable you to get that order. And often our clients think this is going to be quite a long process in the court, and often they're not in the court for very long at all. In the first instance, if it's an emergency order, you can be in there as little as five minutes, and those hearings at the moment are being done virtually so it can be very quick, and it's not as complicated as some people think.
Joy
No, that's great to give that sort of reassurance. There's also something that we're aware of, called the Domestic Violence Disclosure Scheme, also known as Clare’s Law, which I understand has been brought into legislation after the very tragic murder of Clare Wood, who was murdered by her partner, who did have a previous history of violence and that was brought out into England and Wales in 2014. So can you tell me a little bit about what Clare’s Law is and how it can help somebody.
Sue
Clare's Law can be very helpful to victims of domestic abuse and for anybody who may be thinking about or just starting out in a new relationship, but they might not be quite sure about the history of somebody that they're thinking, or just entering a relationship with, in regard to domestic abuse with their previous partners. So what it gives women and men the option to do is to ask for what's called a disclosure from the local Police authority. So in our case in Bedfordshire, that would be Bedfordshire Police. And you would ask Bedfordshire Police to disclose any concerns they have in regard to that new partner or that somebody you’re thinking about starting a relationship with, in regard to any criminal behaviours that they've had concerns about that person in the past, from other partners of theirs. Clare's Law is completely confidential. You're given support by the Police after you're given information, the Police give you support groups and telephone numbers so that you can ring those support groups if you need to, and it may be that they don't have to make a disclosure. The Police don't make a disclosure if they do not feel it's relevant.
Joy
Great. So that sounds really comprehensive if a victim is looking to enter into a new relationship, and perhaps if there's something that they're not too sure over of their new partner or like you say someone that they're intending to enter a relationship with. In terms of family and friends who kind of developed gut instincts don't we, about people that our loved ones start to form relationships with and people we might be worried about, or friendship groups and networks have said that they might not have been very nice to previous partners. Or as professionals when we work with someone, and they start to say about their relationships and how the other person or a family member is responding towards them and we get some concerns over that behaviour. Are we able, is a family member or friend or professional, able to also ask the Police about Clare’s Law?
Sue
Yes, it's not exclusive to just new partners or partners of people who have concerns, it is members of the public. So family, friends, work colleagues, a work colleague may have picked up on something or an incident that happened in front of them and that they have concerns, that they can apply to the Police for that disclosure to be made. The Police can themselves, sometimes when we have somebody the Police have had concerns with in the past with multiple victims, if the Police hear that they're in another relationship or there's an incident in the new relationship, they can actually apply for the disclosure to go to the new partner. Not also just for new relationships or just starting out in a relationship, so it can be you've been in the relationship quite a while, and everything has been really, really good in that relationship. But then there's something that happens, an incident even a year down the line, and you feel “I don't feel right about this”. Then you can make that application when you are in well into the relationship. So it, in effect, it’s anybody a professional, so maybe somebody who the victim comes into contact with.
Joy
Great, and I think that's really, really important for us to have picked up that it could be somebody who is in a new relationship or a relationship that could have been anything from one year to ten years, it doesn't matter at all if somebody is concerned that they need to approach the Police and ask for a Clare’s Law disclosure.
Sue
Yes, that's right.
Joy
So in terms of applying for Clare’s Law disclosures, it is a case of looking on your local Police website or telephoning your local Police on their non-emergency 101 number and actually asking somebody how you can apply. I know in Bedfordshire we have a website, and we have an online application process now. But in other Police forces, that is something that's done over the telephone or if there's a Police station open with an inquiry desk to actually go in and make that application directly.
Sue
Yes, and just to reiterate the application that you make is completely confidential. The person you're asking the check to be done on, the disclosure, would not know that you've made that application, and they wouldn't know that you're being given information about them. We also need to make it quite clear that part of that process is actually, it's a confidential process, and you will be asked by the Police to sign a confidentiality agreement to say that you're not going to pass on that information to anybody else. That's an important part of the process. And that's also to safeguard people who are applying for that order.
Joy
Great. And I understand there's something similar called Sarah's Law for people who are concerned about sexual abuse and anybody who may have got any convictions or concerns previously around sexual abuse towards others. If, again, they're in a relationship where they've got concerns over.
Sue
Yes, it's the same process.
Joy
That's great Sue, thank you. So in terms of your role and working with clients who are at various different stages of domestic abuse relationships, what would your advice be to someone who is unsure what they should do? But they would like to seek some form of support because they know perhaps where they are today isn't necessarily healthy and making them happy. What would your top tips be for them?
Sue
To minimise the risk of further harm to talk to people about what's happening to them, so that other people around them are aware of what's going on. That might be a trusted family member or a work colleague or neighbour. It's very hard making those disclosures to people, but it’s an important part of safety planning with clients who may still be in a relationship and are still in the early stages of deciding what to do. So it's about minimising that risk even though they're still in the relationship. Trying to encourage them to talk about their fears and the concerns they have around their safeguarding and their children’s safeguarding to make sure that they're fully aware of the support that is out there for them, and the special concessions that are often in place for people who are affected by domestic abuse with housing, with protection orders, with the support that's out there in regard to their wellbeing and their children's wellbeing. There's a wealth of support that we can offer them when they're ready. But the most important part we feel, is making sure that they feel as safe as they possibly can by giving them the power to put things in place that might minimise that risk of harm, even though they're still in that relationship.
Joy
That's really great advice, so thank you, and for anybody listening, we would really encourage you to step forward and ask for that help and start talking about what's going on, and everything will be done at your pace and as Sue said in complete confidentiality. So we mentioned a couple of websites as we've been going along with the National Domestic Abuse Helpline website and the Bedfordshire Domestic Abuse Partnership website. And as Sue works for Victim Support, there are national charities that also help and have 24-hour helplines and live web chats, and we would encourage you to speak as freely as you can do in a safe setting to get that support and help that we can give you. So Sue, we're just going to come to a close now for this particular section of protection orders, and the next section of this episode is going to be talking to a solicitor about what a client can expect when they start to engage with a solicitor and the legal process that we would walk through with them. So thank you very much for your time, Sue, and it was great to talk to you today about protection orders and Clare’s Law.
Sue
Thank you.
Joy
So welcome to the second section of the protection orders podcast. And I'm joined now by Shahid, who's a solicitor in Bedfordshire. Good morning, Shahid do you want to just introduce yourself and tell our listeners a little bit about what you do?
Shahid
Yes, good morning. So I am a family solicitor, I specialise in all areas of family law and in particular, those matters which have an element of domestic abuse. And I am also an accredited member of the Law Society Family Law panel.
Joy
Lovely, thank you very much for helping us and supporting our podcast today. So we heard in our first part from Sue, who's an Independent Domestic Violence Advisor about the different protection orders that victims of domestic abuse can get support with and help. So if we're looking now at the solicitor's support that they can offer once the victim wants to look at having a civil or protection order, how can victims make contact with the solicitor and seek support from you?
Shahid
So the Domestic Abuse Alliance has a panel of solicitors that it works with, and it also works with various support organisations which regularly make referrals through a number of ways, and this applies to individuals, victims and organisations. Referrals can be made through email, WEPROTECT portal, which is an online platform designed to manage referrals and cases that are received, referrals can be made through the helpline telephone number, as well as an app, which is called the WEPROTECT app.
Joy
Brilliant thank you, and what we'll do is at the end we’ll sum up the telephone numbers and email addresses for our listeners. And I understand there are other solicitors, somebody might have a family solicitor that they might have done some previous work with if they were buying a house or looking at any other matters that potentially could be a source of information from them as well.
Shahid
Yes, absolutely, that's correct.
Joy
So what's the process when applying for a protection order? And what should a victim expect when they decide that they do want to seek some protection?
Shahid
Well, having dealt with these types of cases for over ten years, you know there's different types of people with different circumstances that regularly approach solicitors. So you know, it's important that solicitors are sensitive to people and their circumstances, and we have to be empathetic. People are vulnerable, emotional, upset, sad, a number of emotions that could be going through different people. So we have to manage all of those things. And people can approach us, as I mentioned, in different ways. Sometimes people feel more comfortable meeting in person, which is fine as well, or over the telephone. Sometimes people want to make an initial inquiry by email, and you know, whichever way is suitable and appropriate, we utilise those methods, and sometimes people can't talk on the telephone for obvious reasons. We are very understanding of these different types of situations, and we communicate with people in the most appropriate way for that individual.
Joy
And is it something that is done at a victim’s pace, or do you have a certain time limit that you would work towards?
Shahid
Well, this depends on the nature of support that is required by an individual. So often individuals require some practical advice and legal advice to help them see through a particular situation, and sometimes it may be necessary to make an emergency application to the court for immediate protection. So it really depends on the circumstances and obviously where an emergency order is required our aim is to get that necessary protection within 24 hours. And that's something that we strive to do at the Domestic Abuse Alliance.
Joy
Brilliant thank you. So in terms of how much some of these orders cost, as I’m aware that some cost a particular amount of money. And there may be some clients out there who have been economically abused who don't have access to funding. So do we know roughly what to expect from a victim's point of view when they approach the solicitor in terms of how much an order could cost them to get?
Shahid
Yes, so in terms of costs, if you come through the Domestic Abuse Alliance, there is access to Legal Aid. So those people that qualify for Legal Aid will receive that funding for their case, and that could be for domestic abuse cases or children’s cases. When it comes to family law, there's also divorced finances, transport tendencies, various other areas that Legal Aid can also be received. There's been a number of changes recently to the availability of Legal Aid, which has been a positive thing for individuals where previously there were various limitations to accessibility, including things like trapped equity and mortgage caps. Now these have been removed, which is brilliant, and we found that a lot of people now have access to funding which otherwise they didn't. In addition, where an application to court isn't needed or, for instance, where people don't want representation, the Domestic Abuse Alliance also offers pro bono work, so that's free advice and assistance with their particular circumstances. Sometimes a warning letter is required, which again is free of charge. So Domestic Abuse Alliance will never charge anyone for using its service and also solicitors, mainly most of the cases are where Legal Aid is available.
Joy
It's really useful for our listeners to know that money shouldn't prohibit them picking up the phone and seeking that initial support, and just asking for some advice from those solicitors that you mentioned. That's great, thank you. In terms of those protection orders, and Sue and I chatted earlier on about the different types of orders that we have, and we understand that different orders can last various lengths of time. Is that's something that solicitors will help the victim work through, to understand the length of time those orders can take and also help them if they want to extend an order?
Shahid
Yes, absolutely. So often people would come to us, who've had an injunction in the past and when it expires, they find that they're being subjected to further incidents of abuse, and they require another injunction. So how long an order lasts for is subjective to the particular circumstances of an individual. Typically, as you pointed out, six to twelve months is an average term of an order. But the point of these orders is that they're supposed to be a deterrent. So if they've been in place for six to twelve months, and yet they haven't served their purpose and you have to reapply, then we have to use a bit of our own judgement and discretion and seek a longer term. So there's nothing stopping individuals asking for an order for two years, five years, ten years, and I have in the past obtained orders for these particular terms and sometimes indefinitely, which it is not as common but in particular circumstances it may be necessary, so it really is quite subjective and something the courts do look at and consider, if you present the case in the right way.
Joy
So once an order has been served and that victim, and also survivors will ask for orders, they have that in place and the perpetrator understands there's an order against them. What happens when a perpetrator breaches that protection order? What should a victim do?
Shahid
There's a number of orders that can be obtained, and obviously you've mentioned some of them which is Non-Molestation orders and Occupation orders. And these orders carry a power of arrest, so you should report it to the Police if there are any breaches and the Police can take appropriate action, they don't need an arrest warrant. And it's a service breach for which a perpetrator can go to prison for up to five years. So that would be the point of the call when a Non-Molestation order or an Occupation order is in force. Other orders, such as Children Act orders, Prohibited Steps orders specific issue orders don't carry such power of arrest, and what would be required is you to refer the matter back to the solicitor who helped obtain the order, at which point another application can be made to the court to take the necessary action which may be enforcement. It may be for a different type of order to deal with what is what is happening. So again, it's quite subjective, and you've got to deal with it in accordance with the circumstances.
Joy
Great, thank you. So just to sum up Shahid, what advice would you provide someone who is unsure whether they would like to apply for a protection order or not today?
Shahid
Well, what I would say is, just pick up the phone, get in touch, speak to someone and the Domestic Abuse Alliance service, which provides not only these injunctions or protective orders but also practical legal advice and can also refer you on to somebody else who can provide you the support that you may require, whether it's counselling, mental health, women's aid, women's centres, housing you know different types of support is required in different situations. So, you know, Domestic Abuse Alliance we can make that assessment for you and advise you and in terms of what you may benefit from. And it's not always legal action that you need, but it's good to know what kind of support is out there, whether it's legal or otherwise. And in terms of speaking to a solicitor, like I said earlier, we appreciate people are extremely anxious and vulnerable and have vast, real feelings that they're going through at the time. So it's important people feel confident and able to pick up the phone and speak to someone and be assured that someone on the other line is understanding of your situation, which here, having dealt with many thousands of these particular situations, we’re very aware of all the circumstances, so don't be afraid.
Joy
It's a really great point to finish on. Really, don't be afraid and reach out and ask for support and there will be somebody at the end of that phone or email or live chat, or even popping into a Safe Space asking somebody for help. There will always be somebody there to help and assist you. Just to recap the helpline number for the Domestic Abuse Alliance is 08001017110 and their website. As we mentioned at the start of the podcast with Shahid, you can also go into any of your local or family solicitors you may have and ask for some help and advice. Or make that telephone call to a local solicitor who would also be able to help you. So thank you ever so much for joining me to here today, that was a really valuable discussion with you.
Shahid
You’re very welcome.
Thank you for listening to Relationships Shouldn't Hurt. If you or someone you know has been affected by domestic abuse or the issues raised in this podcast, you can contact the 24-hour National Domestic Abuse Helpline on 08082000247. You can also find lots of information about domestic abuse on our website, and if you're in the Bedfordshire area, you can find local support services on the Get Help page of this website. If you are in immediate danger, please call the Police on 999.