You are listening to Relationships Shouldn't Hurt, a podcast brought to you by Central Bedfordshire Council. During this series, you'll be able to hear us talk all things domestic abuse and raise awareness of the support available to those affected.
We would like to dedicate this podcast to our late colleague, Lucky Begum. Lucky worked at Luton All Women’s Centre for over ten years and made an incredible contribution to improving the lives of many women in the Luton area. Lucky became ill with Covid at the start of January and after five months in hospital, unfortunately lost her battle to make a recovery. She was much loved by family and colleagues and will be remembered so fondly by many people who worked with her over the years. Lucky specialised in harmful practices, particularly working with women experiencing forced marriage or honour-based abuse. She was one of the national deliverers of the Our Girl campaign and coordinated a forced marriage conference in Luton, working with the Police and national partners. Lucky's beaming smile and willingness to help out will be remembered by all of us.
Tracy
In this episode of the podcast, we're going to be talking about so called honour-based abuse and forced marriage. But before we start to unpick these harmful practices, I need to say that there is no honour in honour-based abuse or violence. It is not lawful to harm someone for choosing, for example, to love outside what their family or community believes is acceptable. Similarly, forced marriage is illegal in the UK. Hello and welcome to this edition of Relationships Shouldn't Hurt. Today's episode is going to be all about forced marriage, throughout the podcast and at the end we'll be talking about local and national services that are here to support you if you're affected by forced marriage or honour-based abuse, or if you're worried about a family member, a friend or a colleague. I'm Tracy from Central Bedfordshire Council, and I'm absolutely delighted to be joined today by Sarah Loftus. Hi, Sarah, would you like to introduce yourself and tell us a little bit about who you are and who you work for?
Sarah
Yeah. Hi, Tracy. I'm Sarah Loftus and I'm Services Manager at Luton All Women's Centre. So Luton All Women's Centre is a centre that's for women, run by women, and we support women that are just having a tough time. So people come to us with a range of problems, it may be domestic abuse, current or historic. It could be the harmful practices we're talking about today, it could be bullying in the workplace, bereavement, childhood sexual abuse, a whole array of different issues that people can come to us and get some support and advice.
Tracy
Thanks, Sarah. So just before we start talking about the issues today, just a few statistics. So the prevalence of honour-based abuse is extensive in the UK and around the whole world, but actually the true scale of this is unknown. And in 2014, a Freedom of Information request to UK Police forces revealed over 11,000 cases of so-called honour crime which have been recorded between 2010 and 2014. Research suggests that there is at least one honour killing that takes place in the UK every month, but this is likely to be an underestimate. And just to add a little bit of context during the first lockdown, Karma Nirvana, which is a national charity that supports all victims of honour-based abuse and forced marriage, reported a 355% increase in calls to their helpline. So what is forced marriage?
Sarah
So I think it's really important to stress that forced marriage is very different to an arranged marriage. An arranged marriage is one that may be organised by parents, and the two spouses agree, and also have the right to refuse if they don't want to marry. In a forced marriage, by a contrast, one or both of the individuals either do not or cannot consent to marriage. Now by cannot, I mean that somebody may have a learning disability or limited capacity and not be able to make that decision so again, if they're being forced into that situation and then that's the force language. And in the case of a forced marriage, no is not okay, not taken as an answer, and the family will use coercive and controlling behaviours to ensure that marriage takes place.
Tracy
So is there any particular age range of people that might be affected by this?
Sarah
I mean the Forced Marriage Unit, which is the Home Office's centre for dealing with forced marriage, they deal with around 112 cases every month. And in 2019 27%, so just over a quarter of all the cases, involved someone under the age of 18. That said, people still do get forced into marriage, maybe in their thirties, and they haven't yet found a partner, and that's causing the family concern. They can still be forced at an older age as well.
Tracy
Why might not being married at the age of 30 be a cause for concern?
Sarah
I mean, the whole thing about forced marriage really is about what people think on the outside, so people are very concerned about how they're perceived in their community, in their culture. So, you know, a lot of this is about the outside that matters, and the stigma stated with somebody not having progressed with their life in the way that they are expected to within their tradition.
Tracy
So from forced marriage, how do we get to honour-based abuse?
Sarah
Well honour-based abuse can happen for lots of different reasons. It could be, of course, refusing a forced marriage. Obviously, in the first instance, it could be that someone's just acting a little bit too Westernised, either the way they're dressing, the way their behaving, it could be that they're seen talking to the opposite sex, not even having a relationship, but just spotted chatting to somebody maybe coming out of a college, just generally causing gossip. And the family then would perceive that that person is bringing embarrassment to their family and so honour-based abuse would start. I just want to emphasise that there is no honour in honour-based abuse at all, it is, you know, it's a crime. It's not okay. No religion as well, can I say, support any of these things. So forced marriage, honour-based abuse. There is no religion that condones this, and it's certainly not honourable.
Tracy
Is it fair to say it's not just family members, for example, parents who might commit these type of offences?
Sarah
Yeah, I mean, certainly in the case of honour-based abuse, it can be multiple perpetrators, usually. If you think of domestic abuse, because this is a form of domestic abuse after all, this is also a form of child abuse if someone is a minor. But often in domestic abuse, we think about really one person perpetrating it when we're looking at honour-based abuse, it tends to be more of a network of people and those people that are perpetrating the abuse could be male, they could be female. In some families, it's the case that it's maybe the eldest sister-in-law that has the most kudos in the family could be the person that's perpetrating it. It could be cousins and extended family that act, as I want to say, spies really outside of the home to keep an eye on people's behaviour and would then report that in. So you're right. It's a whole network, really, of people that could potentially be involved in honour-based abuse.
Tracy
And do you think that this has got worse? Obviously, the statistics that I quoted at the beginning, the calls to the helpline, that Karma Nirvana run, the 355% increase, that I guess that pretty much tells us the answer already. But do you think Covid and lockdowns have made the situation worse?
Sarah
Definitely. I mean, there's a lot of concern, firstly going back to forced marriage, a lot of forced marriages may well have taken place domestically. By that I mean here in the UK because, as we know, last year, we couldn't travel freely. There is a suspicion, normally around 5% of all forced marriages do take place in the UK, but there's certainly the suspicion that with the reduced numbers, there have been an ever-increasing number of back garden weddings where you could only invite 15 people so these things would have gone under the radar. And, you know, this was a young person. They would normally be going to school, to college, they would have those groups of people to speak to, to confide in, to get some information. So I think the lack of being able to leave the home has been part of it. I think the fact that a lot of people have been in bubbles, so you'd have intergenerational living and sometimes it's those elder members of the community that’ll be putting pressure on the younger members of the community to carry out forced marriage, honour-based abuse. So that has obviously increased as well, there's that sort of double increase there where that's been going on at the same time as someone is, you know, pretty much in a hostage situation. If you're being abused in this Covid situation, you have no recourse to go out, you've got no external reach. And I think it's definitely made this a lot worse yeah. I think that we’ll, it will be very interesting to see down the line how offences actually go up. Because I think it’ll have dipped in 2020, but we will see a big resurgence at some point.
Tracy
So we sort of touched on it earlier, Sarah, when you said that victims of forced marriage or honour-based abuse are victims of domestic abuse, what sort of abuse does that domestic abuse become in these situations?
Sarah
I mean similar to domestic abuse it can be a whole range. There will be a lot of emotional abuse often so, you know, making someone believe that the way that they're behaving, the way they're carrying on is really discrediting the family. I've heard people saying that you know, someone's grandmother would die if they don't go and get into a forced marriage. So you know, there's a lot of pressure of; if you don't do as we're asking, there's going to be massive ramifications. So emotional control and coercive and controlling behaviour can be a feature honour-based abuse. Physical abuse, people have been beaten, you know, people are locked into rooms and isolated so that they don't go out. It could be financial abuse. So, you know, if somebody is refusing a forced marriage or refusing to behave in a way that's expected by their family, they may have to hand any pay over, they may stop getting any financial benefits from the family, they may be withheld food and water, you know, and access to cleaning facilities, to only be able to do that in a limited time each day. So really, it's the entire range, it could be sexual abuse as well. I mean, you know, unfortunately people are sexually assaulted, potentially maybe by other family members or the wider community. So all those elements that we see in domestic abuse we can see in honour-based abuse.
Tracy
And would you say, I don't want to use the term worse, but because of the fact that there could be multiple perpetrators, it must feel for somebody experiencing that there's nowhere to turn.
Sarah
Yeah, I mean, I think that's a really difficult thing with harmful practices, with forced marriage, and with honour-based abuse, standing up to it. It is a herculean thing to do because you're turning your back, so to speak, on your family, your community. You may well have to leave your home setting and actually never return or never be spoken to again, if you defy the behaviours that are carrying on. So I think abuse is abuse and all abuse is equally bad, but I think it is really, really difficult for people, you know, some people may need to put themselves in care and other social services to get away from their family, a very young person. Extreme measures are needed, and it takes, you know, a lot of bravery, I think, to tackle this.
Tracy
It sounds unimaginable. We've talked about the victims of honour-based abuse, but who are the perpetrators? I know we’ve said that there could be more than one family member, multiple perpetrators. But can you say a little bit more about the people that commit the abuse?
Sarah
As you say, I mean, it could be a whole range. I mean, I'm thinking of you mentioned at the start about homicides related to the so-called honour killings and there has been a very high-profile case recently and Banaz Mahmod, which I'm sure most people would have watched the documentary about Banaz. Just to give a very brief recap. Banaz was forced into a marriage at a young age with a much older man. The marriage was a very bad one, and she suffered a lot of abuse. She left her husband. She found a love relationship, and her family disapproved of that. And multiple members of the family abused her to try and stop her being with the person she wanted to. Unfortunately, Banaz was killed. But the people that were prosecuted for her murder included her dad, her uncles, there were some cousins, so it was a wide range of the men in the family that had pulled together to stop Banaz moving forward with her life. In the case of another high-profile case, Shafilea Ahmed, who was only 17 when she was killed by her mother and her father in front of her siblings, so she was killed in front of her family so that they would know not to speak out and not to divide the parents, and both her mum and dad received long prison sentences when they were finally convicted of her murder. So you know, it could be old person, young person, male, female, any member really of the family or the extended family, or within the community that are backing this behaviour and saying “Oh, you're doing the right thing because they're so shameful”. So you know, you've got these people being given a pat on the back almost really for abusing people, which is wholly unacceptable.
Tracy
So it could literally be anybody within the family or the local community.
Sarah
Older brothers, you know, that's quite common as well.
Tracy
So if anybody is listening and they are themselves a victim of this honour-based abuse or forced marriage, or if they're listening to this and they're worried about somebody that they care about, somebody that they know, what can they do? How can they get help?
Sarah
I think the easiest thing would probably be to give us a call, to ring Luton All Women's Centre. We have advisers that are specialists in the subject, and we could talk through the situation with them and see what extra support they may need. There's also some really good national, you mentioned Karma Nirvana already, there's quite a few good national services and all those services are listed on our website as well if people didn't want to go to a local service. The Police as well, I have to say that Bedfordshire Police, we have two dedicated Policewomen that work full time on forced marriage and honour-based abuse. So Sally and Tash are the two women, and their full-time job is dealing with these cases. They're very, very empathic, they understand what's gone on, and those are the specialist officers to go to. Anybody that might be worried can also go for a forced marriage protection order, so they can apply for that through the family court. And that is kind of like an injunction and would prevent the perpetrator organising a marriage, planning to take you overseas, the Police will seize the passports, for example, so that you can't be taken abroad against your will. And if there's any breach of these orders, then that is a criminal offence. So that's a way of keeping safe. Anybody can apply for that it could be a friend, family member, just anyone that's concerned can do that, you don't have to be in a position of authority to apply for a forced marriage protection order.
Tracy
Thank you. At the end of this podcast, we will be giving a list of all the telephone numbers and the websites. But just to highlight the organisation Luton All Women's Centre, that Sarah works for, the number is 01582416783 and website. So, Sarah, where can someone go if they are being forced into a marriage and they don't want to be part of it?
Sarah
If you're a younger person I would really urge you to speak to trusted professionals that you know, if you've got somebody within your school or within your college. Most schools and colleges are very well aware of this issue, and the safeguarding team will be primed and ready to support you, whether that's immediate help that you need or, you know, again, for a lot of people, it could be retrospective. It could be that they've ended up being in a forced marriage, and actually that marriage has been really, really bad. And they might be a year or two down the line and need some support and help in terms of how to get a divorce to find out, you know, how are they married? How can they get out of that situation? So I would say speak to a trusted friend or professional or again as I say come to us as the first port of call. If we can't help you specifically, we'll put you in touch with somebody that can help you.
Tracy
Thank you. These practices can happen to both women, girls, boys and men. What are the statistics for this? Can you remind us?
Sarah
Yes, certainly so the Forced Marriage Unit, which is the Home Office, this unit that deals with forced marriage in 2019, which is the last stats available obviously, because of the disruption of last year. They were dealing with around 112 cases every month. 80% of the people they dealt with were females, so obviously one in five were men and 27% were under the age of 18. So were actually minors or children, and in terms of where those people were from, or the country of origin is, it was over 50% were South Asian countries. So the highest proportion was Pakistan, which was 41% of the cases, followed by Bangladesh and India. But then the next country was Afghanistan, Somalia, Iraq and then Romania. So I think sometimes we can, you know, be led into thinking there's only certain cultures that this effects, but actually that demonstrate that it's not only South Asia, but you know, we're into the Middle East, Africa, Europe and you know, we know that here in the UK, travelling communities may be forced into marriage. People may have a particular religion that they only want to marry people from those religions, be that Catholicism, Church of England, Judaism. So you know, this is a problem that can affect anybody of any background, any ethnicity.
Tracy
Thanks, Sarah, just to talk further about a really horrific incident of honour-based abuse that was reported in the press today. It was a lady called Ria Sajid who was talking about her mum, Abida Karim, who was in a relationship for 21 years. And as far as the daughter was concerned, it probably was 21 years of an abusive relationship. And one of the issues that Ria highlights is that her mum didn't get support and help, and she came to England from Pakistan after an arranged marriage, but she didn’t speak English. How can we address that sort of problem in this area?
Sarah
So we're actually very fortunate at Luton All Women’s Centre that we do have staff that speak different South Asian languages. So we've got staff that speak Bengali and other languages. And as well as doing the one-to-one support in those languages, we also run a programme called Our Lives, which is a six-week programme which looks at abuse, domestic abuse, honour-based abuse in the context of South Asian culture. So the expectations of women and just unpick a bit of that for people that speak Urdu and Bengali.
Tracy
Thanks Sarah. So why do people get into forced marriage? What are the causes?
Sarah
I mean, it can be an awful lot of reasons. It could be because of immigration. It could be to enable someone to move to the UK, that's very common. It could be because there's wealth within the family that they want to protect, so it could be land back home, or money here, or money within the family. They want people to marry within that family to keep that money. It could be because someone wants someone to be a domestic servant for them or care for elderly relatives or children within the family. It could be because somebody maybe is not displaying heterosexual behaviours, and that's concerning the family, so they may want to put them into a heterosexual relationship to detract from their sexuality. So it's a whole range of reasons, really, why forced marriage can happen.
Tracy
Thank you for that, Sarah. I'm just going to list all of the organisations that are there to support you. A lot of this information can be found on the Bedfordshire Domestic Abuse Partnership website. Also as I mentioned just now the Luton All Women's Centre. There's also Karma Nirvana, whose number is 08005999247. Southall Black Sisters 02085719595, and also Iranian and Kurdish Women's Rights Organisation, also known as IKWRO 02079206460.
Thank you for listening to Relationships Shouldn't Hurt. If you or someone you know has been affected by domestic abuse or the issues raised in this podcast, you can contact the 24-hour National Domestic Abuse Helpline on 08082000247. You can also find lots of information about domestic abuse on our website, and if you're in the Bedfordshire area, you can find local support services on the Get Help page of this website. If you are in immediate danger, please call the Police on 999.