You are listening to Relationships Shouldn't Hurt, a podcast brought to you by Central Bedfordshire Council. During this series, you'll be able to hear us talk all things domestic abuse and raise awareness of the support available to those affected.
Tene
Did you know three women are killed by a perpetrator every week? Two men are killed by a perpetrator every month, and the Police receive a call relating to domestic abuse every 30 seconds. These statistics prove that domestic abuse is more common than we think, and the reason we are so passionate about this podcast is because we believe the more, we talk about it, and normalise talking about it, the less people will be at home not telling anyone. I'm Tene Edwards and I work in the domestic abuse team at Central Bedfordshire Council. This is the first episode for the Relationships Shouldn’t Hurt podcast. In a series of interviews that will take place every month, with domestic abuse experts, survivors and more. There will be discussions and stories around a range of topics such as voice of the survivor, housing support, the impact on children and young people and so much more. And we want you to join in. So if this sparks your interest, please subscribe and share with anybody you feel will benefit from this podcast. Today I am with my co-host, Tracy Mintern.
Tracy
Hi Tene, I'm Tracy. And like you I'm in the Domestic Abuse team and I work at Central Bedfordshire Council.
Tene
And we are speaking to Jenny Bull.
Jenny
Hi Tene and Tracy. I'm Jenny Bull and I work for Victim Support in Bedfordshire.
Tene
Today we will be speaking to Jenny about what domestic abuse is, who it can affect and where to get help. So, Jenny, what is domestic abuse to you?
Jenny
That's a big question. It's a lot of things, but it's defined if you like, by control. There's lots of different types of domestic abuse. But as I say, the defining factor is control. It's about one person, and we call that the perpetrator, wanting to control another person, and we would refer to them as the victim of domestic abuse. There are many different sorts of domestic abuse. It includes physical abuse, it includes emotional, psychological abuse, sexual abuse, financial abuse, verbal abuse. So it's a really wide sort of definition if you like, but it’s behaviour that is unwanted. It is behaviour that makes a person, the victim, feel unloved, confused, scared, isolated all of those things.
Tracy
Jenny, sometimes people struggle to identify that what is happening to them is domestic abuse because there are no bruises. What are your thoughts on this?
Jenny
Well, as I said, domestic abuse isn't just physical violence. It's really easy to confuse it though, because still, the term domestic violence is used. And we tend to shy away from that, I think professionals working in that area will call it domestic abuse because it does cover such a wide range of behaviours. But there's still this kind of belief, I suppose, out there that unless you are bruised and broken and bleeding that everything's OK in your relationship, that nobody would believe you if you came out and told them why you were unhappy, or why you were scared and why you felt isolated or confused. So the fact that there’s no bruises, there's no bleeding, there's no broken bones, obviously, that makes it harder for somebody else to spot the signs, maybe. But anybody who is experiencing an unhappy relationship. If you are unhappy in your relationship, whether that's with an intimate partner, boyfriend, girlfriend, husband, wife, spouse, partner, whatever you want to call them, or a family member, because domestic abuse also involves families. And if you are unhappy in a relationship and you feel that you don't have a choice, that your voice is not being listened to, that you are scared of your partner or a family member, that you feel isolated, that you feel worried about what would happen if you told somebody, maybe scared of the consequences. Perhaps there have been threats or there's been blackmail. It's just such a such a wide number of things that could happen. But if you if you feel that way, then we would really encourage you, we would ask you, nay beg you, to please come forward and talk to someone. Find somebody that you trust to talk to and tell them what is going on because there is support out there for everybody affected. No matter where you are in your life and where you are in your relationship.
Tene
Thanks, Jenny. I think that's really useful for our listeners. Leading on from the points you just raised why would you say that domestic abuse happens?
Jenny
Again, that's a really big question. And I wish I really knew a definitive answer. I wish there was a definitive answer, because then we could tackle that and go right, let's eradicate it. Let's stop it in its tracks. But I mean, basically, I think a couple of things to mention here are that the perpetrator, the abuser, is responsible for the abuse. It is not the victim; it is not the person that the behaviour is happening to that is responsible for it. It is not their fault a perpetrator chooses, if you like, to hurt their victim. They choose to hurt another person, despite the fact that they realise it is hurting that person. And I don't just mean hurting them physically I mean hurting them emotionally as well. So damaging their mental wellbeing, damaging their confidence, their self-esteem, their self-worth. So a perpetrator chooses behaviours, controlling behaviours, abusive behaviours and really it is only the perpetrator who can stop the abuse. You asked why it happens. There are so many answers to that question, but I guess the main thing I would want to say is that it is never the fault of the victim. And as I say, there is support available for, in fact, both parties in that relationship. The perpetrator can get help once they become aware that their behaviour is damaging somebody. And, of course, there is always support for the victim out there.
Tracy
Jenny, is there a typical domestic abuse victim? And I suppose I'm thinking of women when I say that, because in my personal experience I've had somebody say to me, surely it just happens to young women who are unmarried single mums. We know that that's not true.
Jenny
Exactly. There are so many messages to give out here, which is why there's a set of these podcasts, everybody who is listening, just so you know, because we can't possibly squeeze it all into one. But yeah, Tracy, that's a really good question, because no, domestic abuse can happen to anyone, irrespective of where you are in your life, irrespective of your age, your ability, your culture, your background, your religion, your sex, your gender. Irrespective of anything domestic abuse does, we know it does, happen to anyone. It can happen at any stage of your life, or indeed your relationship. Some people live with it for many, many, many years. It's obviously a very common idea that it happens mainly to women, and to be fair, three quarters of victims coming forward that we know about are generally women, and about a quarter of victims coming forward are men. That's not to say that three quarters of all victims are women. It just means that they are coming forward and reporting it, either to the Police or to services out there. So we suspect that there are obviously very many more people who are experiencing control and domestic abuse in their relationships and whether because they don't realise what it is, whether they're scared or ashamed or embarrassed to come forward. Maybe if you're a male victim, you might think that, hold on, I'm a big, chunky fella, and I shouldn't be affected by what my wife or my girlfriend or my mother or my sister does to me, who would believe me if I came forward and spoke out about it and asked for help. There is no shame in domestic abuse. I often find myself saying that the only qualification you need to be a victim of domestic abuse is you need to be human and that's pretty much it. If you are human, then it can happen to you.
Tracy
Jenny, you mentioned that men might not come forward because they feel fearful of people knowing that they're being abused by a wife or a girlfriend. But also, we know as well, don't we, that male victims of domestic abuse could be hurt if they're in a same sex relationship. And when I say hurt, I don't just mean physically, all the other means of abuse as well.
Jenny
No, definitely. As I say, it affects anybody. The only qualification is that you're human. So regardless of your gender, your sexuality, age, ability, background, circumstances. You can have a job, you can have a mortgage, you can have children. And in fact, one really important point to make, and I'm sure that we’ll be making it a bit later as well. Just to underline, is that it can have a really profound and long-lasting effect on children. Quite often we will hear people say that victims say that it's okay, the children weren't in the room, the children were upstairs asleep when it was going on at home. But actually that is not a protective factor for children. They are aware of what was going on at home. They are aware of that atmosphere. They hear, they see, they experience it. They are witnesses to domestic abuse, even if they are not in the room. And I think any mother who's had a young child who is upset and crying at home, in fact any parent who's had a child who is upset and crying at home, will know that actually, some of that kind of anxiety that their child feels, and I mean that in sort of like the loosest definition of anxiety, I don't mean sort of, you know, in a diagnostic way. Anybody with an anxious child knows that if they are calm, if they can sort of channel their inner calm, then it really helps that child to calm down in turn. So children are really good at picking up on atmosphere and picking up on kind of unhappiness and trauma in a family situation in their home. So it has a massive effect on children. And I think that's quite possibly one of the most upsetting things for a parent to realise that what is happening to them, believing that they are protecting their children from what is happening to them if they are a victim of abuse, the knowledge that actually they might not be protecting their children from it by remaining silent and just putting up with it. I think that's a really hard thing, a hard lesson to understand for a parent.
Tene
Yeah, and in my job role I did some shadowing with an agency who supports victims of domestic abuse, and one of the things they said to me is that a lot of victims feel like they are stuck and that there's no way out of the situation. So what would you say are the barriers to leaving an abusive relationship?
Jenny
Well, I think barriers again it's such a big question because let's try and all imagine right now that we are in an abusive relationship. That we are living with somebody, whether it's a family member or a partner who basically treats us as if we don't matter, as if we don't have a choice, as if our voice is not important, that we have to live by their rules, that whether we're hurting physically or emotionally it matters not. If we're living in that situation, if we are living within an unhealthy and abusive relationship, we have children, we have debts, we perhaps have a mortgage. We met this person at the beginning, let's face it, domestic abuse doesn't happen in the first five minutes of meeting somebody. If you met somebody and they punched you in the face immediately, I like to think that most people would not continue with that relationship. But when you meet somebody and maybe they tell you how important you are to them, they help you, they love you. You become intimate, you trust each other with your secrets, you trust each other with your money and your life. You start building on that relationship. You're having a lovely time. Maybe then their care, if you like, their affection becomes a little bit overwhelming. Perhaps a little bit obsessive, but you're still remembering that person that you first met and maybe you fell in love with, or whatever, control happens gradually. Sometimes we liken it to grooming. Sometimes it doesn't happen, you know it takes a while for it to kind of come out for those abusive behaviours to come out. Sometimes there are triggers that actually trigger domestic abuse in the relationship. So it might happen when a woman becomes pregnant, for instance, that can often be a trigger for domestic abuse to start in the relationship. You might not have been aware of it until maybe there's a pregnancy involved. Or maybe you don't become aware of it until you try to separate until you try to end the relationship. And then you realise that this controlling person is not going to let you go that easily because they want to control you. They have a need to control you. So it's, you know, we're talking about intimate relationships, people who should care for you, who should be keeping you safe, who should love you and should want you to be happy. When it turns out those people that we put our trust in don't actually care enough about us to stop treating us that way and put us first or at least put us equal with them. Then, you know, it might seem impossible to leave, and I'm sure it does for many, many people. If it was easy to leave, we would be inundated with people who were leaving. And we're not inundated with people who are leaving. We know, and particularly through Covid as well, we know that the lockdown has had a really intense effect on relationships. Covid might itself be a bit of a trigger for this control to come out, quite often professionals refer to Covid and the lockdown as a bit of a gift to the perpetrator because it actually facilitates them being able to be even more controlling of their victim and of their children, of their family. It's an incredibly difficult time once you realise, once you’re prepared to acknowledge what is going on in your relationship. You've built a life with these people or this person, this perpetrator and you think back to those early days when you met somebody, and they were great, and they were everything that you needed, and they thought you were wonderful. Where is that person gone? I would say, I suppose, when was the last time that person turned up in your relationship?
Tracy
You mentioned Covid, and I think it's important to remind everyone that's listening that, even if when this goes out, if we are still in a lockdown situation, people can leave their homes. You can seek support and help if you need it. If they are in danger.
Jenny
Yeah, I mean, I think it even says in the in the Covid guidance. If you look on government websites or your local authority websites, it even says, you know that if you are being harmed at home, then you are not forced to be locked down because of Covid and that has been the case all the way through lockdown. But again, if you are isolated with your perpetrator at home, how would you necessarily know all of this? If you're in a high-risk situation, then you might find that you are not able to search online for information or for guidance or for support. You might have been told that nobody would believe you. You might have been threatened with consequences, maybe false accusations to social care or to Police. Or maybe somebody your perpetrator, your partner, has threatened you with harm, threatened to harm your children, threatened to harm your pets, threatened to tell somebody something that you don't want them, you don't want them to know, to reveal your secrets, to circulate intimate images of you. All sorts of things could make you feel that you don't have a choice, that you can't escape. And lockdown has essentially just kind of put, I don't know, another padlock on the door of you leaving this relationship. But it absolutely hasn't. The support services are out there. They are still working through lockdown. You know I work for support service. We're still working. You lovely ladies work for support services and you're still working. We're all still working. And there are helplines that provide 24-hour support so you can ring them. Many services have live chat and web chat functions as well. So if you can't make a phone call, you can still get in touch with support and advice. I certainly encourage anybody who's experiencing an unhealthy or abusive relationship to reach out for help.
Tracy
I think that might be a good time, perhaps to give out the National Domestic Abuse 24-hour telephone number. 08082000247.
Jenny
And don't forget, there is a Men's Advice Line as well. Which is 08088010327.
Tene
Thank you. What about somebody who is worried about someone who is experiencing domestic abuse? Where can they go?
Jenny
They can ring those help lines as well for advice. I'm sure they would welcome the phone call, and they would welcome the opportunity to give advice. But if you are sitting at home and you're thinking that actually sounds like somebody I know my sister, my friend, or my neighbour, or a colleague at work, there is so much support online. So if you can get online, I would definitely encourage you to go somewhere like the Bedfordshire Domestic Abuse Partnership website that holds loads of details about local services and national services as well. And it's full of advice. There's a great deal of advice online. We've got the Crime Stoppers domestic abuse campaign so have a little search online for that. Women's Aid website has some great advice and guidance, and obviously there's the Police. If you're really concerned about somebody, if you think that somebody is in danger, then the best advice is always to call the Police and ask them for help. A little bit closer to home. If you want to speak to somebody about either yourself or somebody else that you're worried about in an abusive relationship, you could also call the Signpost Hub, which is a local number. It's a signpost hub for Bedfordshire. They will give you free and confidential support for any crime, including domestic abuse, and that number is 08000282887. There's a website as well so check that out as well. As I say. I think we've said all the way through, there is support available no matter what stage you're at, and no matter whether you're a victim, survivor, a perpetrator or somebody who is concerned about somebody else.
Tracy
If you're listening to this and you think you're worried about how you're behaving towards people that you love, or if you're concerned about a friend of yours or a neighbour or colleague, you can always point them in the direction of the Respect phone line. The Respect Phone Line can be found online and a telephone number is 08088024040. It's a really useful website for perpetrators to have a look at, they can call, and they can speak to somebody completely non-judgmental about changing their behaviour. And also family and friends can call and talk to somebody, or professionals working with perpetrators can contact that number. Look on the website for more information.
Jenny
Definitely and the thing is, I think we would all appreciate how difficult a thing it would be to reflect upon your behaviours and realise that actually, maybe they were abusive or unhealthy and controlling. You know, it's a really difficult thing to do, but it's totally worth it.
Tene
Awesome. Thank you very much, Jenny and Tracy, for that very detailed information. I know you have so much more knowledge to share, and there’s so much more to learn. But unfortunately, due to time, we are coming to the end of this discussion. But before we end this episode, I would like to ask you both, Tracy and Jenny, what are your top tips and advice for victims of domestic abuse?
Jenny
Well, I have a couple of top tips that I normally like to share at this point, and I suppose the first one would always be not to threaten to leave somebody. If you believe you're in an unhealthy or abusive relationship, don't threaten to leave because that is when there is that risk of your perpetrator losing control. So always speak to somebody, if you are worried, make contact with a professional. Seek support. Call the helpline, call the Police, speak to a friend, speak to one of the very many services that you'll find on the Bedfordshire Domestic Abuse Partnership website and so get support. So do some safety planning, that kind of thing before you leave. Having said that, go with your gut when it comes to your relationship. If you think, if you believe, if you're starting to get this feeling that there is something wrong, then go with your gut. Your gut and your brain are connected, and you should go with your instinct. Get some support. You don't have to announce it to the world, you don't have to tell everybody that you're worried, but get some support. Call one of the helplines that we've talked about today. Again, go on the website. There is loads of information and guidance out there that will help you decide what your next step should be. And it's worth also saying that services will support you whether you decide to leave or stay in a relationship just because you're making the call, just because you've realised that your relationship is not the healthiest one in the world, it doesn't necessarily mean that everybody will force you to leave. So there is advice for you, whether you're leaving or whether you're staying. My third top tip is never send an intimate image of yourself to anyone, because those things last a lifetime, and they are all too frequently used to blackmail you. If a relationship turns into an unhealthy one. So that would be my top tip, do not be sending pictures of your bits to anyone. My fourth one would be ask for help. You are not on your own. There is no excuse for abuse. And no matter what anyone says, no one deserves domestic abuse. So no matter who you are or where you are, there is support available.
Tene
Thank you, Jenny. Tracy?
Tracy
Well I think Jenny’s covered everything to be honest with you, I would really say just emphasise please ask for help. You're not on your own. It might feel like it. You might feel like you're the loneliest person in that household, but you're not. Please ask for help.
Tene
Jenny Bull, thank you very much for coming on. We truly appreciate you and to our listeners, thank you for tuning in. Stay tuned for further episodes, subscribe to our podcast and again please share with anybody you feel will benefit from listening.
Jenny
Stay safe.
Thank you for listening to Relationships Shouldn't Hurt. If you or someone you know has been affected by domestic abuse or the issues raised in this podcast, you can contact the 24-hour National Domestic Abuse Helpline on 08082000247. You can also find lots of information about domestic abuse on our website, and if you're in the Bedfordshire area, you can find local support services on the Get Help page of this website. If you are in immediate danger, please call the Police on 999.